#61: "Inside the Psychologist's Office: From Evaluation to Empowerment with Dr. Taylor Day
Mar 03, 2024***For transcript of this episode, scroll down!
Uncover the world of autism from a psychologist's point of view with Dr. Taylor Day in this episode, "Inside the Psychologist's Office: From Evaluation to Empowerment." 🌈 🧠
🔍 Join me as I chat with Dr. Tay about:
- Practical insights on autism evaluation 🤔
- Signs parents should look for in their child 👀
- Neurodiversity affirming care explained 🤝
- Rethinking meltdowns: A psychologist's unique approach 🔄
- Navigating the new buzzword "PDA" in the autistic community 🌐
- Personal advice for parents on the autism journey 💖
Tune in now for an episode that goes beyond diagnosis, leading to empowerment and understanding. 🎙️🤝
Want to connect more with Dr. Tay? Find her at:
- drtaylorday.com
- Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/the.dr.tay?igsh=YzVkODRmOTdmMw%3D%3D&utm_source=qr
- Tik Tok: https://www.tiktok.com/@the.dr.tay?_t=8j72jRWLxfS&_r=1
- Evolve Podcast: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/evolve-with-dr-tay-real-conversations-designed-for/id1659784037
Transcript:
Sam: Hello my friend and welcome back to the podcast.
Today I have such a treat for you.
We have a conversation that I know many of you will find
so incredibly valuable.
I had the privilege of sitting down with Dr. Taylor Day,
a licensed psychologist who is deeply committed
to providing neurodivergent affirming care
for autistic children and their families.
In this episode, we dive into the practical aspects
of an autism evaluation
and what signs parents should look out for
that may indicate their child needs an evaluation Dr. Day
with her expertise in very early diagnosis
and early intervention shares insights
that every parent should consider.
We also touch on a topic
that's gaining attention in the autistic community, PDA
or pathological demand avoidance.
If you're new to this term, you're not alone.
I'm pretty new to it too. And Dr. Day sheds light on
what it means for parents when navigating this journey.
One aspect I love about Dr.
Tay is her commitment to being neurodiversity affirming.
I've honestly learned so much from her in this area
as she points out in this episode.
As providers are always learning
and this is ever changing, as a psychologist,
she brings such a refreshing perspective
that challenges conventional and outdated approaches.
For those of you who might be on the early stages
of this journey, perhaps just finding out
that your child might be autistic, this episode is a must.
For those of you who are new to Dr.
Te, let me tell you a little bit about her.
Dr. Taylor Day is a licensed psychologist specializing in
neurodivergent affirming care for autistic children
and their families, including very early
diagnosis and early intervention.
She has a PhD in clinical psychology and is the CEO
and founder of Dr.
Tay Concierge clinical care.
Her practice integrates the whole family approach,
a process she created utilizing evidence-informed principles
after seeing a gap in autism care.
Her passion for child psychology
and her focus on autism is in many ways tied
to her own personal experience.
Growing up with a brother who was diagnosed at 23 months
of age, okay, I could gush about Dr.
T forever because I really did learn
so much just in this episode
and from her since we first connected.
But instead, let's get to the show so you can too.
Sam: Hey Tay, I'm so excited to have you here
because I've learned so much from you since we connected.
I think it's been what, maybe a year and a half now.
Um, and I have learned so much from you
and we're gonna talk more about that
'cause I have a specific part that I wanna talk
to you about, um, things that I've learned from you.
But before we get started,
can you tell us a little about yourself and what you do?
Taylor: Yeah, absolutely. Well, thank you for having me.
I'm excited to be here today. So my name is Dr. Taylor Day.
I am a licensed psychologist
and I specialize in working
with autistic children and their families.
I love coming at everything from a whole family approach of
how can we support the entire family
because the reality is autism doesn't just impact
the autistic child.
And um, always focused on providing
neurodivergent affirming care.
You know, constantly listening to the autistic community
about, you know, what their experiences are
and how we can get better at, you know,
supporting autistic children as they grow.
Sam: Awesome. What exactly does an autism evaluation look like?
I know a lot of parents are kind of new on this journey.
Yeah, they wanna get started.
They wanna do an evaluation,
but it's also a little nerve wracking
'cause you don't really know what to expect.
So going in, what's something that they would expect?
Taylor: Yeah, I mean, I think one thing to caveat this with,
as a licensed psychologist,
I do diagnostic evaluations all the time.
And you might see a psychologist,
you might see like a developmental behavioral pediatrician,
you might see a neurologist.
You know, there's so many different providers
that you might see in this diagnosis process.
And the reason I share that is it can look different
depending on what type of provider you go to.
Um, I often find that, and,
and this isn't just my bias, a lot
of times we'll even get more in-depth referrals.
Psychologists tend to do more testing
and often see the patient in the evaluation period
for a longer time.
And so what my evaluations look like is I'm doing a clinical
interview with you as the parent.
It's super important for me to hear your perspective
because you are the expert of your child.
And I only get to see your child for a snapshot in time.
And I think it's super important to understand
what they're like on a day-to-day basis.
There's some type of observation, you know,
if you are in in in-person setting, a lot of times
that's the ados, the autism diagnostic observation schedule.
I do exclusively telehealth evaluations
'cause I practice in nearly 40 states.
And so while I can't use the ados, I've done the ADOS
for a decade and there's other great tools for telehealth,
but same concept where the child is playing
or interacting, you know, with an adult, whether
that's me or the parent.
And we're observing signs and symptoms.
And then the last parts are, you know,
more standardized measures.
So usually that looks like a developmental assessment
or an IQ assessment
to understand the broad developmental picture of your child
and what their skills are like.
And then also having,
the way I do it is I usually have parents
and then either like teachers
or um, other therapists, um, that are working with the child
to report on what they're observing.
And these are standardized measures.
So what that means is it compares your child
to other children their same age
to know are they showing more autism symptoms than, uh, than
what would be expected at this age.
You know, are they showing more signs of inattention,
anxiety, all of that.
And that usually is part of the process is
how do we make sure this is truly autism
and not maybe a DHD.
And so that process is called differential diagnosis.
Sam: Oh, that's so interesting.
I didn't realize that the evaluations would look
so different depending on which provider you went to.
I thought it was more of like a standard evaluation.
Taylor: Yeah, I mean it,
even within psychology it can greatly vary hearing,
you know, some people will do more testing,
like neuropsychologists tend to do a lot, a lot of testing.
Um, but I would say I think some of it is the nature
of the medical model, um,
with more the developmental behavioral pediatrics
and neurology side.
They have a, just a smaller timeframe scheduled in
and listen, they can do absolutely wonderful
evaluations as well.
So that's not trying to say like psychology is better.
Psychology does tend to get the more complex cases, um,
where it's not as, you know, a parent.
Um, or also like a lot of kids when they're high masking,
they need more in-depth testing, things like that.
Sam: So I know one of the questions
that is gonna be asked is about that telehealth.
So what if my autistic child doesn't wanna be in front
of a screen is gonna be the question I know
that I'm gonna get asked.
Taylor: Yeah, I mean, telehealth isn't for everyone.
Um, that's I think something to keep in mind.
One of, I actually love it.
I worked in a clinic for 10 plus years
and saw kids in person.
And while there's benefits of both, I think one
of the things that I love about telehealth is they're,
they are in their natural environment
and they're typically interacting more,
especially the younger kids, more
with the parent than they are with me.
So then it's a familiar adult
and I find that especially like if anxiety comes into play,
that can often like lessen the, the anxiety
and the transition to a new environment and all of that.
And while that can be helpful data, I love being able
to see your child at baseline as much as possible.
I will say I've never had a parent at this point say, well,
my child won't even get on screen.
But that might be an indicator if that really is the case.
You know, maybe you do need to go
to an in-person evaluation,
or it might be looking at understanding
why won't your child get on screen?
Are they really anxious about that
and are they also gonna be anxious, you know,
in this unfamiliar environment.
So you could always chat with, you know, a provider.
I'm more than happy to have that conversation as well.
But the other piece that I wanna caveat to,
so sometimes people are like telehealth, like,
can that be accurate?
And I really, you know, again, doing evaluations
for over a decade, I am not finding them any less accurate.
If anything, I feel like I get a better sense of the child.
But one component that I absolutely include standardly
as part of my evaluations, I tell parents
to send me videos of their kid.
Like if they're like, Hey, my child, you know,
flaps his hands and I don't see that during the evaluation,
that doesn't mean your child doesn't flap his hands.
You know, I just didn't get that in my observation.
So I'll say, Hey, can you send me a video of that?
And I love being able to lay my eyes on it
and also, you know, parents being able
to show their kid in different contexts
and more natural environments.
So that is also a workaround that I, a workaround
but also a supplemental piece of my practice.
Sam: I found that so much too when I was doing online therapy
that the natural context, it makes so much of a difference.
And especially your coaching parents so much
and you're talking to the parents so much
that the kids are naturally doing more of
what they would naturally do, Right?
Taylor: Oh, for
sure. And you know, on the therapy side,
I do telehealth therapy
and I think sometimes there can be this misconception
of like, telehealth therapy means your kid has
to sit in front of the screen and like on Zoom.
And that's the thing, if someone
uses neurodivergent affirming approaches,
they're gonna be okay with your kid running around.
I literally have a girl I see right now,
actually the behavior has faded,
but I was totally fine with it.
She would do gymnastics during our SES sessions,
like flipping, but sometimes then I'd be like, okay,
you're gonna do a cartwheel if it's this answer
and you know, a back benefits this answer
and getting her moving.
And we still absolutely could progress through session.
Also, it's okay if your kid's off screen
for the therapy piece.
The the assessment piece is a little bit more tricky
because I need to actually see those behaviors.
But yeah, I think telehealth has been such an incredible
addition to kind of our, our therapy world.
Sam: Yeah. And you know, the OT in me is loving
the movement piece there.
Yes, yes. So what are some signs that may indicate
to a parent that they might wanna look into in evaluation?
Taylor: Yeah, so one of the things that I always, always say,
and I think this is so important to keep in mind, is
to no one behavior is diagnostic.
And so what I mean by that is you're not gonna be able
to find one thing and say,
my child has autism, and vice versa.
If you, this is a common thing unfortunately I hear a lot is
like, well, my pediatrician says it's can't be autism
because they make eye contact.
And that's just not the nature of, you know, how,
how this disability works
and how the diagnostic criteria works.
But really when we're looking at, you know, autism
as a whole, we're looking for diff difficulties
or differences in social communication and interaction.
So is your child, you know, interacting as you would expect?
Are they, you know, do they prefer to be around people?
Are they able to play back and forth?
Have conversations back and forth.
Are you seeing, you know, them use gestures and eye contact?
Are they showing interest in same aged peers?
There's so many different things
that fall under that umbrella.
And then the other area are the restricted repetitive
behaviors, and we have to have at least two
of the four areas there.
And so this might look like repetitive body movements,
rocking, spinning, jumping flapping,
or, um, you know, more what we call ele
where your kid is scripting or repeating things.
That's one element.
We have the sensory differences,
which I know I'm sure on your podcast you talk about all the
time, whether that's seeking out sensory
or, you know, sensory is more difficult,
like loud noises being oversensitive to that
or hypersensitive to that.
The third area is difficulty with transitions and change.
So this can look like you really have to follow a routine
for your child, um, or if it deviates
or they want you to do th things in certain ways
or things need to, the environment's gotta be tidy in some
way before they'll do something.
And then the fourth area is their interest.
So really, you know, are do they have interests
that are either more intense
for their age than you'd expect or unusual?
And so we have to have those
and so we're looking at it overall.
And so I will say actually, um, I have,
I've shared a free resource with you.
It's a free PDF that parents can opt into
that's gonna break this down even more
and even talk through some of the,
the quote unquote less classic, um, autistic traits so
that you can inform yourself and, and start to know.
But I'm, I'm a huge proponent
of parents listening to their gut.
If you have concerns about your child's development,
looking into it, having an evaluation
or at least starting with your pediatrician
and having that conversation incredibly
and incredibly helpful.
Sam: So
Great. You already
answered my next question, which was,
what are some things that we might commonly miss,
but that's gonna be in your handout for us.
Taylor: Yeah, exactly. So,
Sam: So when do you recommend a parent get an evaluation?
Do they wait until a certain age if they're seeing things
really young, should they do it sooner rather than later?
Taylor: Yeah, so I think this answer often shocks parents,
I'll say it often shocks even people
like other professionals, teachers, all of that,
the answer is the sooner the better.
Um, but the thing with it is we don't need
to really wait for a certain age.
Really what that cutoff age is, is age one, right?
So if you're seeing concerns in the first year of life,
what I'd recommend doing is contacting your state's early
intervention system and ha starting there, seeing if,
you know, some supports can occur
and you know, your child would qualify for therapy.
In terms of the autism diagnostic piece though,
there has been a huge study showing
that we can start making diagnoses as young as 12 months
of age and that diagnoses are stable by 14 months of age.
Meaning we can really reliably preti predict autism at
14 months of age and say, listen,
they're meeting diagnostic criteria.
I think that's a shock to most people
because what we know in the US the average age
of diagnosis right now is about four and a half.
Um, and that's, you know, kind of a systems issue,
being able to get access, also misinformation of, you know,
sometimes providers will say like, well,
I can't see your kid till age three.
The thing to keep in mind, not every provider has this
early, early expertise in the, you know, very,
very early development.
I said that weird, but early,
they don't have an expertise in very early development.
And, um, that is important.
So if you're being told no
and your child's under three, like we don't see kids
that young keep calling around, keep looking for people
who do see kids at a much younger age
and just know that it is possible.
The other thing that I tell parents is particularly if
you're going through your health insurance, there tends
to be very, very long wait lists.
And so with that being said,
get them on the wait list now, right?
And it still could be six to 12 months
before you're ever seeing someone.
Um, and so the earlier the better that you can get
that support is always what I say
Sam: That is really so shocking to me.
Not that the earlier the better,
but that you can really have those early predictors at the
12 to 14 months because so many parents that I've talked
to have been told to come back at two mm-Hmm.
That's like our cutoff in the area - like come back when they're two years old.
So great to know that they don't have to wait that long.
Taylor: Yeah. And I do think it's hard to find providers
that will see kids under two or three.
Um, like right now I have a 17 month old on my caseload,
you know, and the really cool thing about my practice,
the way I run things, um, is I am outta network
with insurance just to be candid about that.
But by doing that, I'm able to kind of have a system
that really is optimizing getting your child seen sooner.
And so right now at the time we're recording this, you know,
it's January and parents can be seen in February
and have answers by the end of February.
So super quick, um, and helping you to get answers,
but so not all providers will be able
to see your child at a really young age.
The little little ones are my favorite.
And I did quite intensive training on the earliest diagnosis
as part of my doctoral training, so
Oh, so nice that parents can get in so quick. Yeah,
Sam: Yeah. So
let's shift a little bit yeah. Into treatment.
What does a session look like as a psychologist
who supports autistic children?
What's a typical day?
Taylor: I mean, it is across the map.
I mean, I could go from one session
where we're doing early intervention support,
which is very play-based child led in its parent coaching
where, you know, ultimately I am, you know,
helping the parent how to engage with their child, how
to follow their child's lead, how
to promote their social communication, how, I mean,
a common common thing I'm talking about is
how do we acknowledge and validate any form of communication
because they are all valid.
It could also look like talking
with a parent about an a a C device, an augmentative,
an alternative communication device of, okay,
how can we help support this?
So that's one, one realm.
We might also be talking, you know,
on the older age range side
of the age range about like co-occurring anxiety or A DHD
and how do we support that, um,
and really help to lessen anxiety symptoms
or help to maximize the child's attention.
Um, and then, uh, I'd say my most common referral right now,
which I I know we're gonna get into is the,
the PDA profile, which stands
for pathological demand avoidance
or the autistic community really prefers
persistent drive for autonomy.
And what it is, is your kid's body goes into fight
or flight in response to any perceived loss of autonomy
or demand.
And it really is this dysregulation that happens.
Um, sometimes these kids can be diagnosed with, um,
ODD oppositional defiant disorder,
and then sometimes they can be also diagnosed
with like anxiety.
It can kind of manifest in different ways.
But that is probably my biggest referral right now.
Sam: That has been something that has become so widespread,
I feel like over Instagram in the last couple months
that I had never heard of before.
So thank you so much for explaining what that is. Yeah.
What should parents look out for for that?
Taylor: Yeah, I mean, I do think we're seeing increasing
popularity on social media
and I think the charges largely being led by parents
that have a PDA child
or by providers, you know, who have really done a deep dive.
But the reality is, Sam, just like you,
I didn't know about it.
I I would say I heard about it a couple years ago,
but really committing to being like,
I'm gonna dive into it was within the last year.
Um, and I think, so don't be shocked if you bring this up
to your child's provider
and they're like, that's not a real thing.
I don't know what you're talking about.
It is not in the DSM five, which is how we diagnose things.
Um, and so that's, I hope we see that evolution
because I will say,
and then I'll answer your question,
I will say when I see it, it makes so, so much sense.
Um, but yeah, I think that that's the nature
and it's just really now getting to the US it,
it really kind of rose first in the uk.
So what it looks like, again, like I said,
your child could be diagnosed with co-occurring ODD,
oppositional defiant disorder, um, and
or like really, really high anxiety where it's hard
to do anything but things to look for honestly is
as a parent, you're feeling like your kid is constantly like
rejecting any of your suggestions
or when you're telling them to do something, you feel like
as a parent you're walking on eggshells.
Like they can go from zero to a hundred,
like instantaneously, um, a lot of negotiating
or your kid correcting you.
And then this is a really interesting one
where your child is like a completely different child at
school and the teachers are like, we see zero concerns
and then they come home
and they're completely melting down at home.
This is because often, not always,
but often PDA is accompanied by high masking autism.
And so kids hold it together all day long
and try to like comply with the demands and follow the rules
and, you know, make sure they're fitting in
and then their nervous system is completely tapped
because this is a nervous system disability
and they come home and they just can't hold
it together anymore.
And so then you end up getting, you know, more of that,
I'll say quote unquote challenging behavior.
Sam: Oh, I can think of so many children who go to school
and they are like, oh,
everything's great, everything's fine.
And then they come home and they get to their safe person
and yeah, just everything breaks loose
because they're so tired
by the end of the day of masking it all.
Taylor: Yeah, exactly. And I think what's
so hard is parents can sometimes feel like they're crazy
when they get that feedback of,
and sometimes it happens too in therapy sessions where,
you know, I have a, a new kid on my caseload right now
that another psychologist, um,
who doesn't specialize in autism and all of that,
but was like, yeah, we're seeing nothing.
Everything's great and there's
so many challenges still at home.
And I think that sometimes too parents can feel crazy
of like, either what am I doing wrong?
Or like, am I just like totally making this up?
Like no one else sees it
and you feel like you're alone on your own island?
Sam: Oh, 100%.
So something else I really love about you is
that you are neurodiversity affirming, again,
I mentioned in the beginning things
that I have learned from you, I have learned
so much about language
and how to be a better neurodiversity affirming therapist.
But for people who maybe don't know what that means, can you
tell us what it means to be a neurodiversity
affirming psychologist?
Taylor: Yeah. Oh, that's such a great question.
And to try to articulate it.
I think one thing to keep in mind is this
is always evolving.
So when we record this right now, you know,
like a year from now, our knowledge may have well advanced.
And I think that's the thing too, is if you are a provider,
it's about just jumping in and starting to learn.
And one of the things that I think was hard
for me too is I came from a very evidence-based training
where everything you do has to be evidence-based.
What does the research say? That's exactly how we do it.
And what I've learned through, you know,
this neurodiversity, which is that
all brains think differently.
And then under the neurodiversity umbrella we have
neurodivergence, which is saying that basically that kids
or even adults that are neurodivergent, diverge from
what is neurotypical.
Um, and so often, you know, A DHD, autism
Learning disorders, um, Tourettes, like
so many things fall under this neurodivergence umbrella.
And so by being an affirming provider, it's a couple things.
You know, within the autism field it's about listening
to autistic individuals,
but as a whole it's about listening
to neurodivergent individuals about their lived experience.
That becomes really important.
It's about honoring, you know, all forms
of communication being valid.
So if your child needs to use an a a C device, you know,
then we're not prompting them to say, okay,
now say it back to me.
We're we're taking that as communication.
Or if they're, you know, they're trying to make a gesture
and pointing at something, then again, we're not prompting
for additional communication.
Granted, there are ways that you can help
to progress your child's communication.
It's not, not saying that,
but it's realizing that that form of communication is valid.
I think it's also things,
and Sam, I know you're really big on this like
with sensory regulation and honoring that,
and it's about recognizing
that our world is very neurotypical
and we have all these standards
and they might not serve, um, neurodivergent children
or autistic children.
And how do we make accommodations?
And that ultimately, two, coming back
to the being a psychologist, what my goal is, my goal is to,
number one, help parents learn
how their child's brain works, right?
How is your child's brain wired when we can start to see
that pattern that is, you know, autism.
Yes. In the DSM we talk only about deficits,
but autism is made up of your child's strengths
and your child's differences.
And when we can see your child holistically for who they are
and provide, you know, supports where needed
and promote their strengths, that's what it comes down to.
And so the goals with therapy isn't trying
to teach the child how to look more neurotypical,
it's trying to help them truly
thrive with who they, they're.
Sam: Oh, amazing. When it comes to the sensory challenges part,
I always tell parents
and my communities
that when I'm saying somebody has a sensory challenge,
I'm not saying that there's a problem with that child
or with that person, but rather that there's a mismatch
between our world that we live in and their personal needs.
'cause we all have personal needs,
we all have personal sensory preferences,
but it's that difference of the world isn't meeting them
where they're at because we do live in that typical world.
Taylor: Absolutely. And I gotta say on the sensory side, I, so
for those listening, Sam was on my podcast, um,
it was episode 18, my podcast has evolved with Dr.
Tay. I learned so much from you in
that episode about the different sensory systems
and how there's eight senses.
I literally like repeat that to parents all the time
and are talking, you know, about proprioception for example,
and you know how important that is
and making sure that kids are able to get, you know, that
that sensory system satisfied in the way that they need.
And I, I reference people back
to the podcast literally just yesterday I sent it
to someone, so Oh, so
Glad. Yeah,
so good and so helpful.
And it, I think that's one other thing though
that I am finding is like being a neurodivergent affirming
psychologist, I am pulling from different modalities
and some of this is also how I run my practice.
I provide a lot of care coordination
and so I like to be in the know,
but I also think like there is overlap, right?
As a psychologist, yes,
sensory is like your realm of expertise.
And as a psychologist I can talk about it
and sometimes I'll talk about it
and then talk about how, you know, with the OT,
we need to be talking about this.
Or as you said on my podcast, not all,
all OTs really know the sensory piece.
Just like speech language pathologists, not all
of them know about gestalt language processing.
So sometimes as a psychologist, I'm bringing these up,
things up, I'm starting to support them,
and then I'm doing care coordination with the other members
of the team to talk about how, you know,
how this is coming into play and what do they know about it
and how we can collaborate
or at least empowering the parent
to have those conversations with their team members as well.
Sam: Oh, so important because when it comes to
looking at a child, we really do need to look at it
through all those different lenses.
So as a provider you need
to understand a little bit about
each of those different things.
Taylor: Yeah, yeah, exactly. So I always find that helpful.
Sam: Yes. So again, changing realms again to some questions
that we're asked from our community.
Yeah, let's talk about meltdowns.
So you have a different take on meltdowns than many
psychologists do, and it's one that I absolutely love.
So you mentioned on your Instagram page,
and I think maybe not the many psychologists,
but that we did in the past.
Taylor: Yes. Right. The conventional treatment was kind
of a behavioral approach, right?
That you wanna ignore a behavior.
And I was totally taught that when I was coming out
of school a hundred percent when
we were going into the clinics.
But you do something different. Can you explain that?
Yeah. I really love conceptualizing
and meltdowns as one, the sensory system is overloaded.
And I, I think it's very analogous, honestly,
as adults when we hit our limit
and we completely lose it, the thing is that we have
so many other skills and abilities
and even our prefrontal cortex is
so much more developed than kids.
And so we don't hit it as often.
Um, but for, you know, some, for many autistic children,
their sensory systems get very over overloaded.
And so I really come at it from that standpoint of like,
okay, you know, this is an indication of that
and it's showing that, okay, moving forward,
how do we proactively start to support some of that
and help with some of that regulation?
And then number two is
that meltdowns are communicative, right?
So a lot of times it's like, okay, you have
this like quote unquote behavior
and you, you're told to ignore it.
Well, more likely than not what happened, the child got to
that point because all of their communication strategies
before weren't being recognized and affirmed.
And so then by further ignoring them, you know, and,
and we don't ignore their other intention, their
communication bids intentionally, it's usually
because it doesn't fit our neurotypical standards
of a child saying, I need help.
It might literally start
to look like your child's wiggling in their seat
or they're pushing something away saying they don't want it.
And because it's not ac company accompanied by spoken
language or spoken communication,
we often don't recognize these early signs.
And so it's about supporting those early signs.
It when a child's in meltdown,
it's literally about just helping
to support them through that.
Um, and providing, I think comfort and you know,
and every child's different in what they need in
that moment, but I just think it's so important.
And at the end of the day, as human beings, we want all want
to feel seen, heard and validated,
and this is your autistic child's way to say that they need
that and that they maybe in different ways
haven't been receiving that.
And so I find it an indicator just to slow down
and be present in that moment.
Sam: Oh yes. And I think every
meltdown too is a learning moment.
I think parents can learn so much by going back
and kind of taking our emotion out of it for a second
and being like, what, what did we miss?
What happened here? But another question
is the tantrums versus meltdowns.
So are they the same? Can one turn into the other?
Taylor: So it's so interesting
because I literally just recorded a podcast episode on this
and I don't know what number it will be,
but by the time ours air it will be on my podcast.
And it was, um, with a speech language pathologist,
we were having this conversation
and you know, we actually didn't agree on this.
So, um, which is interesting to think about,
but it's funny, it made sense why we didn't agree with it.
So she was talking about how tantrums, um, ultimately,
you know, those are typical, right?
And usually too, they do tend
to be more behaviorally oriented
and they're, they're some intention to them versus meltdowns
ultimately, like I said, are
that like nervous system overwhelm.
Um, and so she would say, no, I sit on the podcast
and we dive more into this.
So she doesn't think it can move from one to the other.
She thinks they're just separate.
I feel like it could start as a tantrum
and then, you know,
as the child's getting more dysregulated,
turn into a meltdown.
Um, so that's kind of my thought on it.
Um, but I ultimately do think for autistic children
or children who are neurodivergent maybe that have more
of these tantrums slash meltdowns, yes they are distinct,
but in some ways I, I think that maybe it doesn't matter
if one turns into the other
because I think our approaches can be very similar
with the exception of, you know, I was also taught about
ignoring there are, there are some exceptions
where if your child is exclusively having a tantrum
and I think this is more for neurotypical children,
that it actually can be helpful just
to ignore that behavior.
Um, so it's not an all or nothing thing,
but I often, yeah, coming at it from the standpoint
of more likely than not, this is a connection seeking moment
and that's what they're looking for.
And so, so how can we honor that and make that our default
and not worry too much about the terminology.
Sam: Oh, I love that approach
and I'm super interested for this episode.
I can't wait for it to come out.
Taylor: Yeah, yeah. It was a quite an in-depth conversation on
this question pretty much. So.
Oh, I'm definitely gonna dive into that one, one.
Sam: So what is the number one thing you would wanna tell a
parent leaving here today?
Taylor: I think that you are the expert of your child.
And I think we've had this conversation
and I think a lot of providers are
so amazing in sharing this.
And unfortunately there's a lot of systems right now
that don't always empower you as the parent, whether
that's the medical system or the educational system, and,
but recognizing that you are the expert.
And so what that means is that you absolutely have the right
to be able to advocate for your child, to be able
to give your opinion, to be able to ask for things
and say, this is the way that I want it done.
I don't feel comfortable with these other ways.
And so I think that is incredibly important just
to remember, to empower yourself, to be willing
to advocate and listen.
That can be really hard too. So don't be afraid.
It could like be standing in front of the mirror
and rehearsing this of saying, no, that's not what I want.
What other alternatives can we explore?
I also love coming at it from this perspective
of acknowledging what the other person says, validating
what they say and saying, and I see it different.
How can we collaborate together?
But your voice absolutely matters.
And if you find you're working within teams
that don't empower you as the parent, if possible,
it is okay to find another provider, right?
And you should feel like they value and respect your input.
Sam: Oh, so great. Everything about this episode.
I already know. I can't wait to go back
and listen to this again 'cause there is so much in here.
I'm like, oh wait, I wanna remember this.
Taylor: We Covered a lot.
Sam: We covered a lot. Thank you so much for being here today.
Where can everybody find you?
Taylor: Yeah, so my website is Dr. Taylor Day.
Um, that's a great place
that if you're interested in exploring services, um,
like I said, I practice in about 40 states right now.
So it's, it's a good chance that your state is one of them.
Um, in terms of diagnosis
or therapy, I do one-to-one therapy as well
as have a group therapy model.
That's a great place. But
otherwise, I just love being able to provide free education
and free resources
because I know as a parent it's so hard to find.
So on Instagram and TikTok, I am the Dr.
Tay with periods in between. So the period, Dr. Period, Tay.
Um, and then my podcast is evolve with Dr. Tay.
Like I said, Sam was on episode 18, so amazing.
And then we'll also link the free PDF, um,
in the show notes, I think, um, so that parents can download
that and learn more about, you know, is in evaluation,
something that they should pursue for their child.
Sam: Yeah, I'm gonna link all this in the show notes
for everybody, so perfect.
Go over, grab her free handout
and make sure to listen to her
podcast 'cause it's really good. Thanks again, Taylor.
Taylor: Thanks for having me.
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